«Dentro del Athletic:el club que juega con sus propias reglas»

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Registro: 29/09/2019

Publicado el 17 de noviembre a las 16:47
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El periódico inglés,Financial Times,elogia la filosofía del Athletic y alaba la diferencia del Athletic de los demás clubes e incluso dice que no es una cuestión de racismo si no que se trata de una cuestión de identidad.
Esto lo he defendido más de una vez en este foro.
Algún título ya llegará;pero mientras tanto celebremos orgullosos el ser athletizales que nos separa de los clubes estado,cómo cita Financial Times.

Respuestas al tema

Mostrando (1 - 25) de 25 respuestas

Respuesta #1
el 17 de noviembre a las 16:59
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.
Respuesta #2
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:02
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.
Para eso está la opción de hacerse culé o merengón.

Cada segundo que Ziganda pasa en el banquillo es una negligencia.

Respuesta #3
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:05


Repetido

Mundua ez da beti jai, inoiz tristea ere bai,
bainan badira mila motibo kantatzeko alai,
bestela datozen penai ez diet surik bota nahi,
ni hiltzen naizen gauean behintzat eizue lo lasai.

Respuesta #4
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:06
Tiene algunas inexactitudes como que Williams fue el primer negro en jugar en el Athletic o que a los niños se les enseña lo que es vasco ... pero no está mal.


Inside Athletic Bilbao: the football club playing by its own rules

By picking players only from one region, the club are a defiant outlier in a game transformed by globalisation

Murad Ahmed NOVEMBER 15 2019

January 2019. Athletic Club, a football team based in Bilbao, are playing Sevilla. Receiving the ball in his own half, forward Iñaki Williams flicks it around an opponent and then — whoosh — he runs. 

Sevilla defenders give chase but can’t catch the 25-year-old, who sprints 70 metres in less than eight seconds. Williams shoots. He scores. The match is won. More than 40,000 Athletic fans in the stadium go wild.

Williams’s route to the adoration of these supporters was unconventional. It began at a refugee camp near Accra, Ghana, where his father Félix met his mother María, who fled her native Liberia due to the African country’s civil war. The couple emigrated to Spain and, in 1994, Iñaki was born in Bilbao, where he inherited a rare birthright.

For more than a century, only those born or raised in the Basque Country, made up of four provinces in north-east Spain and three in south-west France, are eligible to play for Athletic. It is the only side in top-level European football to restrict itself to local players.

Athletic’s Iñaki Williams in action against Espanyol last month. ‘We are doing everything right and that is something that other clubs can’t buy,’ says the star striker © Daniel Castro Garcia
The rule, which has been tweaked over time to have less focus on Basque bloodlines, is designed to maintain the team’s identity, not racial make-up. Five years ago, Williams became the first black player to represent Athletic. 

The modern face of a 121-year-old institution, he symbolises how the world has changed — and the ways the club will not. “We are the ones chosen to represent Athletic,” says Williams. “We are from the Basque Country. It’s a small region but we are competing against the best and I think that is something to be proud of.”

Over a few days in Bilbao last month, I met current and former Athletic players, as well as their executives and leadership, to discover how the club’s ancient principles stack up against football’s new realities. 

While modern sport obsesses over the use of science and statistics to unlock a winning formula, Athletic stand alone in offering a different answer. It is led more by faith than logic. The club reckon that devotion to a cause — a belief in Basque exceptionalism — can create a successful football team.

The evidence is compelling. Among the founder members of La Liga, Spain’s top league, the giants of Real Madrid and FC Barcelona are the only others never to be relegated. Indeed, the club are one of Spain’s most successful, having won the league eight times. 

Though Athletic have not won a major trophy such as La Liga or Copa del Rey, the Spanish cup competition, since 1984, they have remained a competitive force. Over the past decade, they have performed well enough to qualify for European competition on seven occasions, reaching the Europa League final in 2012. 


Supporters at the home game against Espanyol, which Athletic won 3-0. ‘I think the fans realise that this is a family,’ says striker Iñaki Williams © Daniel Castro Garcia
They have done so by consistently producing some of Europe’s finest players. Recent graduates include Bayern Munich’s Javi Martínez, Manchester City’s Aymeric Laporte and Paris Saint-Germain’s Ander Herrera.

The team’s insularity makes it an outlier in a game that has embraced globalisation. Football was transformed by the so-called Bosman ruling, a 1995 European Court of Justice decision that made it easier for players to move between clubs. 

The judgment allowed the continent’s richest teams to stack their squads full of international talent. Broadcasters paid astronomical sums to screen matches between top sides. The torrent of cash financed mega transfer deals and huge salaries for the game’s superstars. Football clubs, once institutions rooted within their communities, have become global businesses.

Football became great thanks to the shirts becoming legendary. In order to maximise value, the industry has decided it no longer matters where the player comes from

Club president Aitor Elizegi
Williams could benefit from a thriving market in top footballers by seeking a lucrative move elsewhere, with Liverpool, Manchester United and Real Madrid expressing interest. Yet, in August, he signed a nine-year playing deal with Athletic. 

The contract is extraordinary in length, given the short nature of football careers. “It’s an honour to be linked to those big clubs that are doing well in Europe,” he says. “It means I must be doing something right, but I am where I want to be.”

Retaining players such as Williams is paramount to Athletic’s future. The club force themselves to find and develop footballers from within the Basque Country population of three million — equivalent to Manchester United selecting from the Greater Manchester area alone — then persuade enough of them to resist the advances of the world’s biggest clubs. It is a Sisyphean cycle of its own making.

Within self-imposed limitations, Athletic have always produced a team that can hold their own against the best sides in Spain and Europe. The sport’s wheel keeps turning, though. Cash is flooding into the coffers of opponents in ways that are making it ever harder for Athletic to challenge. 

The club insist they would rather suffer relegation than abandon the Basque-only policy. Athletic continue to believe the rule provides a crucial edge over more mercantile rivals. Is that really true any more?

“From the bottom up, we are doing everything right and that is something that other clubs can’t buy,” says Williams. “They might have other things but they can’t buy what we have.”

On December 5 1976, Athletic’s captain José Ángel Iribar walked on to the pitch for a match against Real Sociedad, a rival team based in the Basque city of San Sebastián, with opposing captain Inaxio Kortabarria.

Athletic’s goalkeeper José Ángel Iribar and Real Sociedad captain Inaxio Kortabarria (left) hold aloft the Basque Country flag in 1976 in what Iribar describes as ‘a very significant moment’ for the region
The two men held aloft the Ikurriña — the red, white and green flag of the Basque Country — and placed it on the centre circle. The act was a crime. It was the first public display of the flag for 40 years and came a year after the death of Francisco Franco, the dictator who sought to suppress the diverse cultures, languages and traditions of Spain’s regions.

Franco had banned the Basque flag and, in 1941, even issued a decree forcing the football club to change their name to Atlético Bilbao. He objected to the English spelling adopted by Athletic’s founders, a combination of British shipworkers and local students who journeyed to English universities and returned with a love of the game.

“There was a feeling in the air that people were looking forward to a new phase that would be more democratic,” says the former goalkeeper Iribar, now aged 76, who represented Athletic more times than any other player. 

“There was a need for vindication, a desire to make amends for certain things and one of those was to recover an emblem of our identity that had been prohibited.” He fondly recalls the “very significant moment” of raising the flag once more, as well as “relief” at not being arrested by lenient policemen at the ground. Iribar harbours one regret. “[Real Sociedad] beat us and we felt a bit hurt in that respect,” he says.

Former club captain José Ángel Iriba who has represented Athletic more times than any other player

The club have often been embroiled in the region’s fraught politics. In 2000, the militant separatist group Eta (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna or Basque Homeland and Freedom), which had sought violent means to create an independent state, attempted to extort players such as the former Athletic defender Bixente Lizarazu, who represented the French national team. 

Eta demanded Lizarazu pay a “revolutionary tax” for playing under the “colours of an enemy state”. To this day, hard-core fans can be seen holding up separatist banners at matches. Some have been heard singing, “Let’s kill a Spaniard” to the tune of “When the Saints Go Marching In”.

The issue appears less toxic in recent years, taking a back seat to the calls for independence in Catalonia, another northern province that is roiling Spanish politics. During my visit, local bars in Bilbao had TVs fixed on rolling news coverage from Barcelona, where protesters were marching against the trials of Catalan political leaders who organised a referendum for regional independence in 2017.

Conservatives, leftwingers, nationalists, separatists are all here. It’s a club that represents unity

Former captain José Ángel Iribar
While Athletic’s culture can be seen as a product of decades of oppression experienced by the Basque people, Iribar maintains that the club are not a political entity. 

He points to their nature as a socio that, like a handful of Spanish clubs including Real Madrid and FC Barcelona, is owned by thousands of individual members who vote for the club’s leaders. The views of these members span the political spectrum.

“All the ideologies that exist in [the Basque Country] are present in Athletic,” he says. “Conservatives, leftwingers, nationalists, separatists are all there ready to defend this great game of football. It’s a club that represents unity.”

The way Basque history is enmeshed with the club’s is evident at their corporate HQ: Ibaigane Palace. The three-storey mansion lies in the heart of Bilbao, a short walk from the Frank Gehry-designed Guggenheim Museum that has transformed an industrial city into a tourist destination.

Ibaigane was built by one of the Basque region’s great trading families in 1898, seized by the Franco regime, which turned it into an army barracks, before being sold to the club three decades ago. 

There is little football paraphernalia here, though a club flag and silver trophy occupy the landing of a staircase. On the top floor, there is an organ and small chapel installed by the original owners.

In the building’s wood-panelled atrium, I am greeted by Aitor Elizegi, 53, a slight man with a stern face. The restaurateur was elected club president in December last year, promising modernisation, such as seeking new international sponsors to improve revenues, using social media to communicate with fans and forcing executives to travel in electric cars.


Club president Aitor Elizegi says: ‘What came above the players was the badge, the colours and the stadium’
Like his predecessors, though, Elizegi is committed to the policy of selecting only Basque players. “Football became great thanks to the shirts becoming legendary,” he says. “What came above the players was the badge, the colours and the stadium?.?.?.?the football industry has decided, in order to maximise value, to downgrade the whole process. It no longer matters where the player comes from.”

Athletic’s view has led to a disdainful attitude to football’s multibillion-euro transfer market. They do try to acquire players, seeking to scoop up the best from other Basque sides. (This includes signing players from Sociedad, which dropped their own Basque selection policy in 1989, believing they could no longer compete against teams stacked with foreigners. Sociedad’s first overseas signing, Irish striker John Aldridge, has said locals spat at his feet when he arrived.) Otherwise, Athletic stick to developing them from within their youth academy.

Athletic have little incentive for selling their players either. They are one of La Liga’s wealthiest clubs, with revenues of €134m in the 2017-18 season, almost double what they earned five years earlier, according to figures from consultants Deloitte. 

While this cash cannot be used to buy world superstars, the money ensures current players are well compensated. Williams’s new contract makes him the highest-earning player at a club where the average first-team salary is just below €4m a year. Such wages compare well with the continent’s leading teams. 

Even so, Elizegi believes it is more difficult than ever to retain Athletic’s best. Why?

“Neymar,” he says with a shake of the head.

A few years ago, FC Barcelona negotiated a playing contract with Brazilian forward Neymar. It inserted a “buyout clause” — a fee that triggers a sale, which is insisted upon by Spanish football authorities — at €222m (£200m). 

The assumption was no rival could afford such an enormous fee, which was more than €100m higher than any team had ever paid. In 2017, Paris Saint-Germain, backed by gas-rich Qatar, paid the money required to activate the clause. “It was completely over the top,” says Elizegi. “It has caused inflation in the market that makes it very difficult to come to terms with.”

Our aim is not to be better than the others but to be more authentic

Ex-player Joseba Etxeberria
Last year, Athletic saw two of their best players move to England’s Premier League. Chelsea paid €80m to acquire Kepa Arrizabalaga, a world record for a goalkeeper, while Manchester City paid €70m for Aymeric Laporte, then the second-highest fee ever paid for a defender. In both cases, Athletic were forced to sell against their will, as the English clubs activated their buyout clauses. 

The players accepted the offers to leave, not only for even higher wages than Athletic would offer, but because of the greater likelihood of winning the sport’s greatest prizes. To ward off interest in Williams, the buyout clause in his new contract has been set at a prohibitive €135m.

At the same time, the club are being squeezed by teams usually below them in football’s pecking order. In 2016, La Liga began to negotiate television broadcast deals — the main way teams make money — collectively among its member clubs, distributing funds more equally. 

Before this, clubs would negotiate TV contracts individually, a system that benefited the likes of Athletic thanks to their eager local fanbase, which makes them one of Spain’s best-supported clubs.

The new distribution model has cut the advantage. Previously, top Spanish sides earned eight times those at the bottom of La Liga. That ratio has become closer to 3.5:1. Lesser teams are suddenly able to afford better players, who are providing a stiffer challenge to Athletic.

Elizegi is dismissive, saying the cash is rarely spent wisely. “Several of last summer’s signings are being embarrassed in the Spanish league and several of the big signings have not justified their price tag. I’m not naming names, but I think about 100 per cent of those signings are still delivering substandard performances.”

Yet La Liga is the tightest it has been for years. With a third of the season gone, the top 10 teams are separated by just six points, with Athletic lying sixth in the table.

Club executives have come to accept football’s transfer system will always leave the club at a disadvantage on the pitch. They point to the effect on its women’s team. After Athletic became among the first Spanish clubs to have a fully professional female side in 2002, they won five league titles. 

Eli Ibarra, who has won the women’s title five times with Athletic, says: ‘It is not easy to compete now with those teams that are bringing in foreign players’ © Daniel Castro Garcia
In the past three years, the likes of Atlético Madrid and Barcelona have signed some of the best women footballers from around the world and are now dominating the Spanish league.

“We are conscious that female football, for the good of everyone, has taken a shift forward that is great for the sport,” says Eli Ibarra, 38, a Spain international midfielder who has played for Athletic more than any other woman. “With the investment and money coming in, it is good for the league. But it is not easy to compete now with those teams that are bringing in foreign players.” 

On an unseasonably warm October day, I travel to Lezama, a small town 10 miles east of Bilbao. Ensconced among rolling hills, a landscape interrupted only by trees and terracotta roofs, lies Athletic’s state-of-the-art training grounds. Over a perfectly prepared grass pitch is a large concrete arch that once hung over the club’s stadium, moved here as another reminder of a beloved past.

About 400 boys and girls, starting from the age of nine, are trained at Lezama. The best will eventually be promoted into Athletic’s first teams. Just one or two make the grade each season. 

The club reckon more than 80 per cent of their men’s team began at this youth academy. They pour their millions into providing intensive coaching to players across the age groups, turning this facility into one of football’s foremost talent factories.

I’m here to meet Rafa Alkorta, the club’s sporting director and yet another former player, hoping he will reveal the secrets of Lezama. Nothing to see here, he insists. Sure, coaches are encouraged to scour the planet to discover and return with the latest football thinking. 


Sporting director Rafa Alkorta: ‘The first thing we teach... the kids when they arrive is to love the badge’ © Daniel Castro Garcia
Scouts are sent across the Basque Country in search of talented athletes. Psychologists and physiotherapists are on staff. None of this is radical thinking in modern football, though.

“Do we do something different [in training] from other teams? No,” says Alkorta. “Our methodology is more or less like any other team. Technically or strategically, we don’t invent anything magic. It is more than this. You need to love the team. You need to believe 100 per cent.”

I express doubt that mere devotion is enough to be transformed into a world-class footballer. But Alkorta, 51, insists the club’s policies have intangible, advantageous effects. For one, youngsters know they are far likelier to become a professional footballer at Athletic than at any other club. 

They know they represent a pyramid that is possible to scale, because the current team have already done so. Expensive foreign recruits will never supplant them. That encourages players to remain at the academy and the club.

Another powerful force is local feeling. “It is the most important thing for our families, for our friends, for anyone you know?.?.?.?if there is anyone that plays for Athletic in your circle, it is the greatest thing for everyone,” says Alkorta. “It is a religion.”

The club’s state-of-the art training ground where about 400 boys and girls, starting from the age of nine, are trained © Daniel Castro Garcia
Indeed, people across the club continually refer to Athletic as a “family”. The idea is instilled from childhood, creating powerful ties that bind. Boys and girls are taught Basque history, and Athletic’s role within it. “The first thing that we teach is to love the badge. It’s the first thing you teach the kids when they arrive,” says Alkorta. “The mentality and the heart of the guys win a lot of matches. Every year.”

A sporting romantic may think this is a welcome antidote to the selfishness displayed at other clubs, players continually jumping between teams for fatter pay cheques. A cynic may suggest it is a form of indoctrination, designed to get impressionable young stars to make decisions against their personal financial interests.

Whatever one’s view, the message works. While some leave, unable to resist fame and fortune elsewhere, many stay and have their entire careers at Athletic. Current captain Iker Muniain has been there for more than a decade despite receiving many offers to leave. 

Last year, he signed a new contract that contained no buyout clause, meaning he will remain at Athletic for as long as his services are desired. The midfielder is not alone. Teammates Raúl García, Ibai Gómez, Óscar de Marcos and Mikel Balenziaga have also rejected buyout clauses.

Others go even further. Joseba Etxeberria, now 42, a Spanish international player who played for the club for 15 years until 2010, donated the wages from his final season to the club’s charitable foundation. “Our aim is not to be better than the others but to be more authentic,” says Etxeberria.

I’m ushered further within the training facilities to the office of Gaizka Garitano, the first-team coach. The tiny room is sparsely furnished. A small desk, a half-filled bookshelf, a tactics whiteboard in the shape of a football pitch with indecipherable squiggles drawn in red.


First-team coach Gaizka Garitano: ‘We have a philosophy here [going back] decades’ © Daniel Castro Garcia
Garitano pauses a video projected on to a wall. He has been watching many hours of matches involving Espanyol, a Barcelona-based team that are Athletic’s next opponents. “I live here,” he says with a sigh. “I’m here more than with my wife.”

In the past, Athletic have often employed foreign head coaches, including renowned figures such as Germany’s Jupp Heynckes, England’s Howard Kendall and Argentina’s Marcelo Bielsa. 

The selection policies do not extend to the dugout, though this, again, is a quirk of history. Partly founded by Britons, Athletic’s first three coaches were English. But for Garitano, 44, managing Athletic represents a homecoming. 

He trained at Athletic’s academy as a player, though was only good enough to turn out just once for the first team. He enjoyed greater success as a coach, leading another Basque side, SD Eibar, to back-to-back promotions and a place in La Liga. 

Subsequent managerial roles at Deportivo La Coruña and Real Valladolid ended in failure. Then, with Athletic mired in the relegation zone midway through last season, Garitano was promoted from his position coaching Athletic’s second team and duly led the club up the La Liga table to finish eighth.

He says the club’s unique philosophy creates a harmony and discipline among players that cannot be matched. “The environment in the dressing room, people feel very respectful with the manager, with the supporters,” he says. “Since I have been here, I’ve not had any problem with any player.” 

This is in sharp contrast to his experiences at other clubs. “I had 14 foreign players in La Coruña and six of them didn’t speak any Spanish. I had to speak in English with some of them?.?.?.?The dressing room wasn’t very easy to manage, to be honest. There were good, skilful players. But they didn’t play as a team.”

This is perhaps the best explanation of how the Basque-only rule helps on the pitch. The players are driven by a greater sense of mission. Personal interests are subsumed for the greater good. It is a culture and team ethic that has been passed down between generations of Basque sportsmen for more than a century. 

“This is the main advantage,” he agrees. “[At Athletic] I am just focusing on mainly football. In other clubs, you are concerned about the owner, players who are complaining or disagree. You start working in the afternoon, thinking of football and the rest of the day you are concerned about different issues, different things. Here, we have a philosophy [going back] decades.”

Two days later, there is a match at San Mamés, the club’s stadium named after the Christian child saint who, legend says, was thrown to the lions by the Romans only to tame the animals. As much as the club want to project themselves as a throwback to a bygone era, they have not completely resisted modernity. 

This stadium was rebuilt in 2013, transformed into a sleek arena. Before the match, an advertising banner is draped over the centre circle featuring the logo of Vueling, the low-cost Spanish airline.


The club’s San Mamés stadium was transformed in 2013 into a sleek arena with a capacity of more than 53,000 © Daniel Castro Garcia
On a wet Wednesday night, the visit of Espanyol, a team lying second-bottom in the league, attracts a below-capacity crowd. The steep stands are dotted with empty seats. There was no problem filling this ground for the first game of the season, though. 

Then, Athletic beat a Barcelona team featuring household names such as France’s Antoine Griezmann and Uruguay’s Luis Suárez. Just like any other crowd in world football, the Bilbao public are drawn to the biggest matches, the brightest stars.

Perhaps it is the players that matter most. Tonight the captain Muniain scores twice, including a magnificent volley from outside the penalty area. Williams torments Espanyol defenders, who struggle to keep up with his tremendous pace. The players’ commitment is clear, their talent superior. Athletic win 3-0.

The mantra that the club is of the Basque people, by the Basque people, for the Basque people is an alluring one. It convinces players that football is more than a game. It leads to the likes of Williams rejecting the allure of wealthier sides. Instead, he seeks glory for the region that accepted his parents, to the club that developed his talent and to teammates he sees as kin.

“At the end of my career I want to be a legend like Iribar,” he says. “I think that all of us who are here feel like part of something. We feel that it reaches us in an important sense, and no one looks down on anyone else. This is a family. I think the fans realise that this is a family, because we fight together as brothers.” 

Murad Ahmed is the FT’s sports correspondent


Respuesta #5
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:13
Cita de Peio_70:


Repetido

Una cosa es un artículo periodístico y otra muy distinta un alegato en favor de la la supuesta actual filosofía. No veo repetición alguna.
Respuesta #6
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:23
Editada el 17 de noviembre a las 17:28
Cita de Feroche:


Algún título ya llegará;pero mientras tanto celebremos orgullosos el ser athletizales que nos separa de los clubes estado,cómo cita Financial Times.




   Con esto es con lo que yo no puedo. Eso de celebrar la diferencia por la diferencia...

   Si siendo diferentes se pudiera pelear por algo, bien.....pero así, a secas, sin un título de vez en cuando para aderezar el guiso.... pues cada vez me cuesta más verle la gracia

"Jóvenes, rebeláos contra todo; no hay nada o casi nada bueno. Rebeláos contra todos; no hay nadie o casi nadie bueno..."
                                  Alejandro Lerroux, de joven.

   Años más tarde dimitió por corrupción...

Respuesta #7
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:50
Editada el 17 de noviembre a las 17:54
   " Conservatives, leftwingers, nationalists, separatists are all here. It’s a club that represents unity"


   Y esto habría de quedar grabado a fuego en algún lugar vistoso de San Mamés. Que es tema que a alguno le cuesta todavía. Y durante el último mandato no es que se haya hecho especial esfuerzo pedagógico al respecto.

"Jóvenes, rebeláos contra todo; no hay nada o casi nada bueno. Rebeláos contra todos; no hay nadie o casi nadie bueno..."
                                  Alejandro Lerroux, de joven.

   Años más tarde dimitió por corrupción...

Respuesta #8
el 17 de noviembre a las 17:53
Cita de Aju:
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.
Para eso está la opción de hacerse culé o merengón.


Entonces el Athletic para qué juega???

Quiero más a Raúl García que a mucha gente de mi familia.

GOIENA ASKATU !!!

¡¡¡ Yo también odio los patinetes eléctricos !!!

Respuesta #9
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:02
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.




¿De verdad tú eres del Athletic o eres del San Sebastián?
Respuesta #10
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:02
Cita de foreveryoung:
Cita de Feroche:


Algún título ya llegará;pero mientras tanto celebremos orgullosos el ser athletizales que nos separa de los clubes estado,cómo cita Financial Times.




   Con esto es con lo que yo no puedo. Eso de celebrar la diferencia por la diferencia...

   Si siendo diferentes se pudiera pelear por algo, bien.....pero así, a secas, sin un título de vez en cuando para aderezar el guiso.... pues cada vez me cuesta más verle la gracia


Y cuántos aderezos para tu guiso te garantizan extranjeros de medio pelo?
Respuesta #11
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:04
Cita de Sociopapagar:
Cita de Peio_70:


Repetido

Una cosa es un artículo periodístico y otra muy distinta un alegato en favor de la la supuesta actual filosofía. No veo repetición alguna.


Pues igual yo estoy confundido, pero el forero podía citar ese alegato si es que no es ese artículo.

Mundua ez da beti jai, inoiz tristea ere bai,
bainan badira mila motibo kantatzeko alai,
bestela datozen penai ez diet surik bota nahi,
ni hiltzen naizen gauean behintzat eizue lo lasai.

Respuesta #12
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:24
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.


Mmm no sé dónde has estado los últimos 120 años pero el fútbol profesional es mucho más que eso.

Vamos a ganar la Copa

Respuesta #13
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:35
Cita de mrpentland:
Cita:
Para eso está la opción de hacerse culé o merengón.


Entonces el Athletic para qué juega???


este año a empatar

gora geu te geutarrak,eta bera potro bakarrak

Respuesta #14
el 17 de noviembre a las 18:46
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.

El deportista profesional es el cobra por su actuación, independientemente de si gana o pierde.
Respuesta #15
el 17 de noviembre a las 19:01
Cita de badi:
Cita:


Entonces el Athletic para qué juega???


este año a empatar

Fuera de casa sí. En casa sale a ganar y generalmente lo suele conseguir.
Respuesta #16
el 17 de noviembre a las 19:01
Cita de mrpentland:
Cita:
Para eso está la opción de hacerse culé o merengón.


Entonces el Athletic para qué juega???


Supuestamente para ganar.

https://alironathletic1898.home.blog


Respuesta #17
el 17 de noviembre a las 19:08
El deporte PROFESIONAL es para ganar, el deporte amateur es para disfrutar.

Dicho eso se puede ser de un equipo profesional y disfrutar aun no ganando muchas veces.

Gracias eternas Knopfler por ponerle música a mi vida.

Adelantar al ciclista es fácil,solo hay que girar un poco el volante.

El Señor de los anillos, Dire Straits, Juego de tronos,Jordan y Messi.

IA = PP = Fach_s/Fascist_s

Respuesta #18
el 17 de noviembre a las 19:24
Todos queremos ganar. La diferencia es como.
El Athletic, es y será un caso único, en el fútbol profesional...y parece que jode.
Respuesta #19
el 18 de noviembre a las 08:25
Cita de garinbiño:
El deporte PROFESIONAL es para ganar, el deporte amateur es para disfrutar.

Dicho eso se puede ser de un equipo profesional y disfrutar aun no ganando muchas veces.
Si no ganas partidos,el único que disfruta es el rival.Jugar "bonito" como intenta Paco Jemez ,y acabar bajando,solo gusta a aficionados neutrales.
Respuesta #20
el 18 de noviembre a las 08:38
articulo de palmadita en la espalda


EL ATHLETIC NO NACIÓ PARA SER DIFERENTE , NACIO PARA GANAR!!!

Respuesta #21
el 18 de noviembre a las 09:09
muy emocionante el documental "los años de la gabarra".

después de vivir aquello, tras abolirse el derecho de retención, agur a Zubizarreta, julio salinas, urkiaga y de la fuente.

si se llega a abolir en el 82, no habría necesidad de hacer el reportaje, porque la desbandada hubiese sido generalizada.
Respuesta #22
el 18 de noviembre a las 10:11
Cita de Jaylon:
El deporte profesional es ganar o perder lo demás son cuentos chinos.


Creo que el cuento chino es ese mantra que algunos repetis de que el objetivo unico y todopoderoso del futbol profesional es ganar.

No se si lo fue alguna vez. Pero en tido caso, hace mucho que habria dejado de serlo.

El futbol profesional actual es un negocio. Y como en todo negocio, el objetivo es vender un producto. Mientrs se venda y haya beneficios economicos o de otro tipo, y el negocio se sostenga, la cosa va bien.

Y ya te digo yo que el Madrid o el Barca solo venden si ganan. Ahi si que se podria aplicar esa maxima.

Pero, por ejemplo, un Cadiz, un Sporting y muchos mas, no se sostienen porque ganen o no. Ayuda, porque venden ilusion y esta con alegrias viene mas facil. Pero son muchos mas los clubs profesionales que ae mantienen porque sus aficionados compran muchas mas cosas que el ganar. Desde el poder ver futbol en directo cada dos semanas, a la emocion por mantenerse (en primera o en segunda), la de subir o la que sea. No todo es ganar.

Y no me cabe la menor duda de que una gran mayoria de los aficionados al Athletic, consumimos este producto fundamentalmente por razones que no estan basadas en el ganar partidos o titulos . Si ese fuera el unico motivo por que se mueve el futbol profesional, hace tiempo que habrian desaparecido muchos equipos y que nosotros habriamos dejado la filosofia en el baul de los recuerdos.

Y que conste que he respondido desde el punto de vista que has marcado tu, con lo del deporte profesional. Si lo hago desde la perspectiva emocional del futbol, ya ni te cuento. Y yo creo precisamente que es ahi donde residen la razon y el fin último de este invento. Lo que lo sostiene.
Respuesta #23
el 18 de noviembre a las 16:31
Cita de deviljill:
Cita de foreveryoung:
   " Conservatives, leftwingers, nationalists, separatists are all here. It’s a club that represents unity"


   Y esto habría de quedar grabado a fuego en algún lugar vistoso de San Mamés. Que es tema que a alguno le cuesta todavía. Y durante el último mandato no es que se haya hecho especial esfuerzo pedagógico al respecto.


"We are from the Basque Country. It’s a small region but we are competing against the best and I think that is something to be proud of.”

... Y esto también, pero en letras más grandes aún, que a algunos también os cuesta entenderlo



   Ningún problema de comprensión. Caben los dos mensajes perfectamente. Uno al lado del otro y, a poder ser, mismo tamaño de fuente.

"Jóvenes, rebeláos contra todo; no hay nada o casi nada bueno. Rebeláos contra todos; no hay nadie o casi nadie bueno..."
                                  Alejandro Lerroux, de joven.

   Años más tarde dimitió por corrupción...

Respuesta #24
el 18 de noviembre a las 16:45
Cita de deviljill:
Cita de foreveryoung:
   " Conservatives, leftwingers, nationalists, separatists are all here. It’s a club that represents unity"


   Y esto habría de quedar grabado a fuego en algún lugar vistoso de San Mamés. Que es tema que a alguno le cuesta todavía. Y durante el último mandato no es que se haya hecho especial esfuerzo pedagógico al respecto.


"We are from the Basque Country. It’s a small region but we are competing against the best and I think that is something to be proud of.”

... Y esto también, pero en letras más grandes aún, que a algunos también os cuesta entenderlo


Pues si.

Llorente, Martínez, Amorebieta, Laporte, Herrera, Kepa...

A cada vez más les cuesta entender eso.

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